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About the title it depends- costs have come down for food made at home and eating at home, it is the cost of eating outside that has doubled from 3% in 1960's the Kennedy years to 5.7% in 2024 as a share of personal disposable income.  Costs of eating at home are now half of what they were in the Kennedy years when they were about 13% of personal disposable income, as shown in USDA data and charts.The American public says in voting preference and other surveys  that inflation is a key concern, food prices  are mentioned as a key concern. Food prices fell by about 8% during the pandemic 2020 and rose quickly by 2022 by 12%.    Eating at home declined from about 13% of personal disposable income in the Kennedy years in 1962 to about 9% in the Reagan era in 1990 and down to 5.7% today. The real culprit in food inflation is people paying higher prices to eat outside at restaurants. In that period obesity has increased and general health has declined by these spending habits and lack of food savy cooking knowledge that not only cuts costs but also makes it possible to eat healthier by controlling intake of the fat, oil, and other poor ingredients by cooking for oneself at home. At home one avoids packaged goods and cooks the food from healthy ingredients. A correction is badly needed and will help not only health but also the family budget. Its a crazy way to do things not to educate children on healthy foods starting early in school, including in designing lunches and gradually increasing interest in making simple items from scratch. And instead to neglect food and food intake ending up with increase in cost plus poorer health outcomes. Hitting not just the family budget, also the nation's budget with higher and higher expenditures on healthcare. American habits need a change to make more at home like mothers and grandmothers in the 1960's and reverse obesity, poor health outcomes. As for the manufacturers of packaged foods President Biden talked recently about shrinkflation putting less in each bag of food at the same price. "The American public is tired of being played for suckers. I've had enough of shrinkflation. It's a ripoff." WSJ looks at food prices in 1991 and other points in the past and today. In 1991 as a percentage of disposable income food was 11.3%, according to Agriculture Department. This was after an inflationary increase in the 1970's. USDA data shows it has reached 11.2% in 2022. The public is responding by eating less outside and making its own granola and other items, and generally buying less that cuts into sales, a healthy trend. This is expected to lead grocery stores and manufacturers to reduce prices in 2024. ...

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Con Agra is having to cut prices on its Pam cooking sprays, Wesson cooking oils, Egg Beaters and other produts to compete with growing sales of private labels . In its consumer foods segment the amount of food sold declined by 4% in its fiscal third quarter ended Feb. 22. Kraft Foods saw a loss of 2.5% of sales volume in the fourth quarter 2008 because people bought less Kraft products. And Kraft has lowered prices on some nuts,cheeses and coffee.Heinz saw sales volume decline by 6% in its most recent quarter. In 2008 food producrers pushed through price increases of as high as 10%. The situation now is that consumers are shifting to austerity spending and this will increase price competitive private lable products even more. And Nielsen data from the Private Label Manufacturers Association show private label sales of food and grocery products in the USA grew 10.3% in th 12 months ending Nov 2008 to $82.9 billion.

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Missteps by the Detroit automakers include fighting fuel efficiency legislation in 2005, even when the USA faced higher gas prices, and diluting the fuel efficiency legislation with a target of 35mpg for 2020 at a time when Europeans were taking up more aggressive challenges as public opinion there moved in that direction. They also spent heavily in lobbying spending, about $175 million for GM and Ford in the last 10 years, and some would say lobbying against the national interest and the national security interest of the USA, because failure to reduce consumption of oil through fuel efficient cars weakens the economy by sending hundreds of billions of dollars overseas to mideast countries. The closing of plants in states like Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and Delaware and consolidating their operations closer to home weakened Congressional support, And the foreign auto makers built plants in places in the south like Alabama resulting in Senator Shelby of Alabama becoming allied with them. Rick Wagoner failed to show the vision and leadership needed, and Detroit failed to realize that vision and leadership were required to run these companies. not coming up through the large bureaucracies of these companies. And people associate him with declining market share and a company in decline and asky why. The whole mood of the country is reflected in newspaper columns across the country, in reader comments that run into the hundreds for each article overwhelmingly negative for taxpayer money going to Detroit automakers. This is the situation today and catches the Detroit automakers management, union, dealers, suppliers, by surprise as they have become so used to the status quo and know nothing different....

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Alan Blinder points out that the political partisanship that has emerged in 2010 has not served America well, as it has deprived the government of the fiscal policy tools, which would be more effective than the Fed's only mildly effective tool of buying $100 billion a month of medium and long term Treasury debt. The country he says is tied up in partisan knots that prevents the use of the fiscal policy tools, and leaves the Fed with the choice of doing something only nudging the rates on government and private securites a bit (by 30 basis points for Treasury debt and 15 basis points for private securities as an example, not enough for more than a mild impact on corporate spending). The fiscal policy tools are he says of a wide variety and pack a lot more power, and he cites three as examples: offering significant lasting tax breaks for job creation, large enough to produce results (larger and long term than the HIRE program), government hiring directly onto public payrolls and government paying local and state governments for hiring at the local levels, the government offering to compensate states for a cut in the sales tax for a year to stimulate consumer spending. Would'nt this raise the deficit though? Blinder points out that the deficit problem lies in the future. Right now there is so much slack in the economy, that public spending will not crowd out private spending. And with Treasury rates at an all time low, Treasury can finance the larger deficit in the short term. A depreciation of the dollar or inflation, he says, is not a worry, because now there is worry about deflation, and the USA needs a lower dollar to push exports up and rebalance its economy. This does not slight the deficit issue and the culture of poor budgeting among both parties, as Reagan Budget Director David Stockman pointed out in an op-ed piece, but accomodates the real dangers and opportunities of difficult policy choices. This is why he laments the advertising campaign and public relations campaign against the 2009 stimulus bill, and the expected paralysis of fiscal policy from the extremely partisan 2010 midterm elections, and public opinion consumed by fear of deficits. Leaving the Fed with the unenviable choice of using only mildly effective tools. Other experts and columnists mention the risks associated with the Fed's large scale purchase of securities, if this leads to another asset bubble and subsequent collapse, and another bailout needed for financial institutions. Peter Eavis in one column in the WSJ points to the lack of effectiveness of the first round of quantitative easing of $1.7 trillion. And Kelly Evans, in the WSJ, points to the risks of "bad" inflation, if another round of quantitative easing by the Fed leads to increases in the price of commodities such as oil and food (such inflation falling heaviest on lower income households).The US Financial Regulatory Reform bill has received low grades, and recent standards for reserve capital in worldwide banking reforms are stretched out over a long period, leaving fragility in the economic system, if something were to go wrong....

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Mercedes sales have seen asharp decline. May 2009 sales were down 33.4%% from May 2008 for the US region. Steve Cannon who heads Mercedes' marketing effort continues to believe that its performance, innovation and technology that will bring buyers back to Mercedes. The company's $75 million ad campaign in the USA for its updated E-Class Series cars, show tv ad spots with scenes of families admiring classic Mercedes cars at the Mercedes Benz museum in Stuttgart, Germany, and scenes of the car down a forested road. The car then bursts through the wall of the museum, and takes its place alongside other Mercedes cars. In contrast other manufacturers, GM, Hyundai, Honda and others are taking account of the economic downturn and lower consumer spending. Hyundai offers to help customers pay for the cars if they lose their jobs, which GM and Ford has matched. Honda is also keeping pricing emphasis. Mercedes only brings up the price at the end of its ad with the number $48,600 shown, a 9% drop in price for the updated E Class Series....

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Don't let the current holiday season retail sales fool you as they have held up reasonably well. The impact of the mortgage and housing crisis will be felt in a delayed manner. It won't be till 2008 that the impact will really be felt. And the impact is expected to be lasting and deep, could take the rest of 2008, 2009 and into 2010 for this protracted tightening of credit. About $300-400 billion contraction in credit is expected when banks tighten their credit lending because of losses they are taking in the mortgage crisis. This will happen in an environment of falling house prices and consumers will not have access to the $340 billion in cash from home and mortgage equity financing that they took out in 2006, estimate of the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Auto, retail, apparel, and luxury items would be hit the most. On the jobs side not all the jobs will be lost in the USA. The USA imports about $740 billion in consumer goods and autos each year, which is one third of consumer spending excluding food and energy. The lower consumption in auto and apparel would affect exporters in Japan and China and South Korea. But Chinese exports have reached a point that they are causing trade tensions and a call for strengthening the yuan. An increase in American exports and lower imports could help bring down America's trade deficit. This could give China an opportunity to build its domestic market and markets in Asia and Europe so that it is not so dependent on the US market. For the US where the savings rate is near zero this is an opportunity for consumers to build their savings and reduce debt. Europe and India and the Middle East are expected to continue growth and China may see slower but continued growth in 2008 and 2009. In the US industries like aircraft and infrastructure promoting companies that sell to countries like Russia, India Brazil, the Middle East, and China will continue to grow. And because rates are still low large nonfinancial companies still have access to funds for expansion and capital investment. In a global economy the US consumer may be one part of a much larger picture. ...

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No indication that Gulf money is that much better spent this time, as another flood of petrodollars hits the Emirates and Saudi Arabia, with no idea for how long. The huge reserves of dollars built up by the large exporting nations of manufactured products and commodities may have created a huge surge in liquidity that indirectly caused the spending boom that fueled realestate and domestic retail markets in the USA from which the US will take a long time to recover. So these large surpluses of petrodollars cannot be looked at without some concern as they create distortions in the allocation of resources and in spending habits in different nations in the world economy and in different ways. A too low price of oil simply let fuel economy fade as a concern and let fuel economy standards become stagnant for over two decades and a splurge in light trucks and large fuel guzzling vehicles. The freespending buying habits sustained development in China but the low prices of lowend manufacturing goods also led to too much concentration on that kind of manufacturing in China leading to an environmental breakdown. And corrective action comes a llittle late when a lot of the damage has been done and only after this is the alarm raised and the corective action taken. Meantime while these excesses are taking place its seen as a strength as some industrial sectors grow richer and as soon as the excesses become a problem these very industrial sectors become a weakness. Take a look at the auto industry in the USA and the small manufacturers in Guangdong province in China....

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Russian economy is faltering under the strain of the global financial crisis. The stock market is plunging, with the RTS Index down 19% on October 6, 2008, and the market down 60% since the high in May, 2008. Construction spending is winding down. Th economy growth rate was 8.1% in 2007 but its slipping. If oil prices hit $50 and they were already at $78 on October 10, 2008, then says Anders Aslund at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington, there will be a sharp decline in the growth rate. Moscow analysts say the growth rate could drop to 4%. For Americans Russia may seem remote excpt for investors. But in a global economy there are connections to emerging markets and Russia is one big emerging market, next to China, India and Brazil. When General Motors shares dropped 31% and Ford's 22% on one day on October 9, 2008, the news that spooked the markets was ofcourse a credit watch and questions about liquidity from Standard and Poors rating agency, but alsoimportant was that the one bright spot for GM and Ford in Europe and in Russia in particular was disappearing as GM sales declined in Europe and in Russia. In the prior 12 months GM had seen sales jump by 40% in Russia giving it 10% of a car market that passed Germany recently as the largest car market in Europe. Couple of important things about Russia. Russians today are big spenders, savings are small and Russians do not trust their banks so bank deposits are very low. Household deposits are equivalent of 17% of GDP, compared with 45% in the USA. Only 4% of Russians trust commercial banks according to a poll by National Financial Research Agency in Moscow. So Russia depends on the outside world for much odf the cash flowing through its financial system. Foreigners purchased two thirds of the $170 billion in bonds isued by Russian companies and foreign banks put up half of the accumulated $900 billion in bank loans including almost all longterm debt estimates Moscow investment bank Troika Dialog. With global credit markets in a lockdown mode Russia is simply running short of cash. The government has $560 billion in foreign exchange reserves from years of high oil prices plus $160 billion in two sovereign wealth funds with most of this money in fixed income securities abroad as a rainy day cushion should oil prices tumble. On October 7 the governmet announced $36 billion in emergency loans to Russian banks following earlier pledges in September of $150 billion in loans and relief for Russian companies in danger of defaulting on international debts. One danger here is that about 55% of outstanding corporate loan are of maturity less than 1 year. One of Russia's largest developers Mirax Group is putting 50 projects on hold as bank financing for developers has almost ceased. On the other hand Russia's financial sector is relatively small and the credit crisis cannot hurt Russia as much as it will USA ad Europe. Bank loans account for 10% of corporate finance and the bond market is only a decade old, so about half of all capital investment by companies comes from retained earnings. And Russia has huge needs for investments in infrastructure after years of underinvestment, a stable political structure, an educated workforce, and an economy that is just getting started. As Secretary Paulson answered questions after the G7 meeting October 10, this was another point on the minds of the secretary and questoners, the hope that emerging markets like Russia, India, and China would continue to grow though slower than before, even as the US and Europe slipped into a long recession, and provide a little cushion to the global economy....

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The Indian economy is expected to grow by 8.5% this year compared to 6.5% in 2009. But a major problem looms in the high inflation facing India. The poor monsoon in 2009 led to higher prices for foodgrains, lentils, and sugar. And the government's cut in the fuel subsidies will lead to more efficient use of energy, but will lead to one additional percentage point in wholesale price inflation according to the Reserve Bank of India, India's central bank. The whoesale price index in India went up by 10.5% in June from the prior year, and this after a 10.1% increase in May. Bloomberg's tracking of consumer prices in the Asia-Pacific region shows India at the top of 17 countries in inflation, and consumer prices paid by industrial and farm workers in India are shown to be increasing at 14% annually. The government is coming under criticism for not releasing more grains from its stocks to soften the impact of last year's monsoon. The Manmohan Singh government finds inflation at above 10% unacceptable and is looking for further action from the central bank. Reserve Bank of India governor Subbarao has raised rates 3 times since March 2010 to 5.5%, and a further increase is expected at its next meeting on July 27. A better harvest in September, from a better monsoon season, could help lower food prices. If this does not happen, more tightening by the central bank could hurt economic growth, putting the government in a quandary....

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Analysts fear an oil shock in 2012 similiar to that in 2008. There is similiarity in the situation now and in 2008- as in 2008, the surge in oil prices comes at a time of higher tensions with Iran and shrinking spare capacity. Spare capacity is at 2.5 million barrels a day on average for January and February 2012, according to the Energy Information Administration. This compares with 3.7 millon barrels a day for the same period in 2011. Part of the reason is that global oil demand is increasing in 2012 by 1 million barrels a day, to 89 million barrels a day. Technical and political problems have shutdown another 750,000 barrels a day. The problems begin to kick in during the second half of 2012. The U.S. ban on dealing with the Iranian central bank for oil trades starts in June 2012. According to the International Energy Agency, the EU embargo and U.S. sanctions will take 1 million barrels a day of Iranian crude out of the market. The result will be that demand exceeds supply by the third quarter by 1.1 million barrels a day, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Use of existing reserves in Europe, the U.S. and other countries will make up the gap. The effect will be to put pressure on oil prices. May Brent crude on the ICE Futures Europe exchange was up to $125.81 a barrel, on March 16, 2012, and prices for April delivery were at $107.06 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange....

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The yen is 34% stronger than the Korean won since mid 2008, hurting Japan's competitive edge. This affects exporters like Toyota which sees annual profit reduced by $390 million or 35 billion yen for every one yen appreciation against the dollar. The dollar now trades at 88 yen over 30% stronger than the precrisis level in 2008. So how does the new Japanese government see this. Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama and the Bank of Japan have made comments suggesting that they favor a stronger yen, making imports cheaper to help spark a rebound in consumer spending missing in Japan since the 1980's. This would reduce the dependence on exports for growth, something that severely hurt Japan and Germany when the world economy took a dive late last year in the global financial crisis.

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The Census Bureau reports that 46.2 million Americans were living in poverty in 2010. This is an increase of 2.6 million over 2009. This is the highest number of Americans living in poverty since 1958, when this statistic was first measured. Poverty is defined for 2010 as income at or below $22,314 for family of four. Also relevant is the median household income which went down to $49,445 in 2010, a decline of 2.3% from 2009. The typical household earned less in 2010 than in 1997, in inflation adjusted terms. The Census Bureau reports 16.3% of Americans had no health insurance coverage in 2010, the same as 2009.

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Research firm Dragonomics says real estate prices fell 4.9% in April from the prior year for nine cities in China. In 2010 prices in these nine cities went up by 21.5%, the increase in 2009 was 10%. Standard Chartered estimates China's second tier cities, such as Dalian and Tianjin, could have 20 months of housing inventory by the end of 2011. Standard Chartered says price declines of 10-20% can be expected. Government data understates the extent of the bubble and the drop in prices say analysts. Beijing real estate consultant, Soufun, confirms the slowdown in price increases, saying its data show average property prices went up by 5.1% in May over the prior year, compared to the jump in prices in 2009 and 2010. Prices of copper and steel are coming down after rapid increases. The price increases in the Chinese real estate market have put housing out of the reach of ordinary couples. In 2006 an average price of a new apartment in Beijing cost $100,000, by 2011 this had gone up to $250,000. It woud take 57 years of saving for an average person to buy the apartment at todays cost. The government's response has been to boost down payments on mortgages for second homes to 60% from 40%, prohibiting state owned enterprises outside the real estate sector from investing in real estate, and raising the reserve requirements of banks....

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High inflation and depreciating currencies in India, Turkey, Brazil, Indonesia and South Africa in 2012-2014.

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How is it that GM would predict sales close to 16 million when no one else sees that happening. Is it just optimistic, even in the face of last years forecast which also stumbled badly with no improvement in the second half as expected. Instead GM closes the year 2007 with sales down 6% over 2006. And much worse numbers for Ford which saw 12% decline, and Chrysler a 3% decline. Chrysler continues to sell to rental fleets. Toyota's and Honda's sales grew by 3.1 and 2.8% respectively. But this year 2008 Toyota doesn't expect to do well with only a 1% increase. Nissan and Hyundai are in the same straits as the Big Three American makers in inventory of cars and sell to rental car fleets. In terms of inventory per point of market share Nissan has excess production capacity and more cars as inventory, about 39,000 per point of Nissan's market share similar to the Big Three. Toyota and Honda have 28,000 per point of their market share.

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Martin Feldstein says China is gaining control of three problems it faces of shrinking export markets, the effects from a large stimulus in response to the 2008 financial crisis, and inflation especially high real estate prices. The economy is shifting to higher role for services and less dependence on exports under the new five year plan. The real estate prices are levelling off after steep increases. And inflation is under control. New investment will go into infrastucture needs such as power development and low income housing. As the economic problems are being tackled, the political problems remain. China faces an aging population under its one child policy, and it will have to support an increasing number of retired people in the future. Inequality and corruption are two problems that continue to grow and present challenges to the new leadership taking over in 2013.

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Spain's central bank was lauded for macroprudential supervision before the housing bubble burst. Will China's central bank and financial authorites which have managed the housing bubble upto this point face similiar problems? Can China be the sole exception even as housing bubbles burst with wide repercussions in the U.S., UK and Spain? Nicholas Lardy, of the Peterson Institute of international Economics, says urban housing stock makes up 41% of Chinese household wealth in 2011. The same figure for the U.S. is 26%. Chinese buyers invest in homes because low interest rates on savings accounts cannot keep up with inflation. Real estate investment was 13% of GDP in 2011. Home ownership is a recent development in China, only since 1990, Chinese have never experienced large price declines. Household debt as a percentage of disposable income has increased significantly in recent years, up to 53.6% in 2011 from 31.3% in 2008, according to Lardy.

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Nouriel Roubini has proven correct on global financial issues. He said in an interview on the sidelines of a symposium in Malaysia, that China needs to revalue its currency for its own sake. China will see a growth collapse in the next 2-3 years if it fails to do so. His point is that China can still maintain growth by shifting to domestic consumption and less infrastructure spending and exports. In his view growth should not be affected if China exports less and consumes more. He points to the decrease in consumption as a share of GDP from 45% to 36% in the last ten years- this ratio is 70% in the USA. A cheap yuan keeps foreign goods unaffordable and protects state owned companies which also get cheap credit, as keeping the yuan low requires China to keep interest rates artificially low. What this does is make a massive transfer of income from the household sector to the state owned companies, just at the time when China needs to do the very opposite of this. And compounding the problem is that the 25% of China's GDP that is made up of retained earnings of mostly state owned companies, goes into real estate and production facilities. See the link to David Barboza in the New York Times who points to the wasteful spending and real estate speculation by state owned companies. Roubini cites the automobile sector where capacity has doubled in the last year to 20 million, when the domestic market increased by 50% to 10 million vehicles. The stimulus only increased the effect of surplus capacity and misallocation of investment, with highways to nowhere and brand new airports that are three quarters empty. The Chinese leadership is beginning to grasp this, but the state owned companies and other interests who benefit fromm the old model, may make it difficult to reverse the trends. A lot is at stake in this, as it affects the U.S., as well as countries dependent on China's imports such as Australia, Canada, Brazil and Germany. ...

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Over the last ten years average growth in real per capita income has averaged 1.6%, with declines only in two years of the last twenty years, 2008 with the global financial crisis, and in 1991 a year before President George H.W. Bush lost the election to Clinton. A forecast by Mark Zandl of Moody's Economy.com shows real disposable income per capita is expected to increase by 0.4% by the end of the third quarter of 2010 from a year earlier. This will show up in consumer spending and will weaken the recovery. It is also likely to be reflected in elections in the latter part of 2010.

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Tom Keene of Blomberg BusinessWeek talks to a panel of experts about the future prospects for the US and the global economy. The discussion was spurred by Carmen Reinhart's paper at the central banker's Jackson Hole, Wyoming, conference. This paper forecasts high unemployment, low housing prices and very low growth in the US upto 2017. Shiller, Calomiris, Orszag, Kaufman and Bill Gross are part of this panel. Shiller's to do list main item is to get help to local and state governments by restoring general revenue sharing arrangements. Gross would focus on jobs that can hold up in a competitive economy, and put back some of the production that is taking place in the developing countries back into the developed countries, as part of a rebalancing; through a currency realignment. Kaufman would like to see a capital expenditure program by the US government, including infrastructure and education. Calomiris would like to see a setup of a new Republican Congresss to set the stage for post 2012 efforts. Calomiris favors cutting entitlements, cutting payroll taxes, but is not clear how this would help lower the deficit. Orszag points to feedback from business leaders suggesting a lowering of payroll taxes will not spur hiring, as the real reason for not hiring was low 1-2 % expected growth. Shiller, Kaufman and Gross see government efforts as realistically needed in the current situation....

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Only by learning the lessons of "normal" trade with China, and accepting a feeling of "buyers remorse," says Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, will a better bilateral trade relationship with China evolve. He points out that every $1 billion of the trade deficit with China, has destroyed 13,000 net jobs, making the $226 billon deficit a tale of shuttered factories and devastated communities. He says China uses illegal subsidies and currency manipulation, and punitive steps are needed, not the moral suasion that the Obama administration keeps doing with no result. He says price manipulation keeps Chinese products 40% cheaper than comparable American made products. He wants the Senate to give tariff authority to the President, to impose tariffs on countries that manipulate their currency, when it convenes next month. Brown is the author of the book- Myths of Free Trade.

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Andrew Ross Sorkin points out that investors are sitting on their hands and money is moving out of the stock market. About $171 billion has moved out of mutual funds over the last year, according to the Investment Company Institute. About $208 billion has gone into the bond market in the same period. There are now fewer long term investors and the market is dominated by professionals which increases the volatility. There is a lack of confidence in the economy, the same reason that businesses in the U.S. are sitting on $2 trillion in cash that could be invested, and for investors the feeling that the market is rigged to favor insiders. The Financial Literacy Group surveyed 878 students at 18 high schools in 11 states in the U.S. It found that three fourths of the students agreed with the statement: "The stock market is rigged mostly to benefit greedy Wall Street bankers."

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The Labor Department's rate of labor underutilization is 14.8% of thepotential workforce, much higher than the 8.1% unemployment rate. Which means that a lot of workers are not able to make the fullest use of their skills. If unemployment stays high for a very long period some workers lose their skills and become less employable. THat could leave the floor for unemployment at amuch higher level. Something like this is happening now and stay with us as the unemployment rate grows and the underutilization of labor rate with it. Physiscists call it "hysteresis"., a kind of laggard impact of some sustained force. An example is if you squeeze a nerf ball for so long that it doesn't bounce back when you release it. Higher underutilization of labor which could hit 20% by 2010 at the rate at which job losses are ocurring of half a million a month, would mean pressure on wages and fears of deflation, lower tax revenues and fears of persistent deficits, less cash to invest and companies having less capital to invest leading to lower earnings. And falling behind the curve is what Krugman fears could be happening now, even with the large stimulus and budget of the new President, because of a series of problems ocurring at the same time and reinforcing each other. And the efforts of the government still not large or effective to meet the scale of the challenge. See the link to this. ...