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The market shares of Hyundai, Kia, and VW have received a boost as the Detroit carmakers struggle. Kia and Hyundai have moved their market share from 5 in 2008 to 7.3% today, up by 2.3%. Hyundai had difficulty getting brand name recognition for quality and performance in prior years, but it has persevered. KIa and yundai spend more on incentives, $3200 in 2009 compared to $2000 in 2008 to attract first time buyers. To take into account the economc conditions Hyundai was the first to come up with the Hyundai Assurance Plan, which allows buywers who finance their purchase to return the cars if they lose their jobs. Once these buyers try the Korea cars the ope is that they will see that the quality is on par with the Americans and the Japannese for a lower price, or even exceeds them. The Korean carmakers have worked hard on improving quality. In 2009 Hyundai won the North American Car of the Year award at the Detroit Auto Show for the Genesis luxury car. VW is also gaining market share this year. VW's market share is up to 2% from 1.5% in 2008. Aggressive marketing of the Jetta has moved its sales by 8.3% in May. Some of this market share is coming from Japanese carmakers....

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This report in the WSJ makes the America centric thinking mistake of forgetting where China started from in assessing progress and China's new priorities. In 1960 the World Bank shows China per capita at $90 which does not change much till 1990 when it was $300, the Deng opening to western technology and capital pushed it up to $3000 the year 2000 (US $36,000) and $4500 in 2010 (US $50,000) when the global financial crisis hit. Since 2010 the Chinese economy was burdened by high local government debt and struggled to get to $10,000 in 2020 under Xi Jinping's first two terms as president. Yet it paid a huge price for this -the chance of Bo Xilai (2014) upsetting the twin banners of Science and Modernization of the May 4th 1919 movement that set the course of China for 100 years uninterrupted through the Nationalists, the Japanese occupation, the Maoist CCP, the Deng CCP opening and Jinping CCP pullback. The huge inequality was seen as an opportunity for Bo Xi Lai or some other leader to capitalize on moving China in an unknown direction that posed risks for the future of China. Even then the first preference of Xi would be to carry on with what had worked after Deng. Yet it was clear that working class votes were shifting the dynamics of elections after the Trump election and closing the doors to open access to western capital, technology, and investment. With Trump in erratic and uncertain ways, with Biden after the elections of 2020 consistent and with single minded determination to limit flows. Not just Xi, any other Chinese leader would have had to have the internal discussions about the need to shift back to a model China was familiar with and one that worked before- that of state intervention in the economy, that of reducing the inequalities that posed risks for the CCP's survival as forging a path for stability to carry out the twin banners of the May 4, 1919 Movement - Science and Modernization as China's salvation. Unlike the hysteria about China posing a challenge to the US these internal debates of Xi and the party may have concluded that the US with about half the population of China's as it grows with immigration in the future and multiple times the per capita GDP was a country that no other country was going to come close to. In this sense the supply chains are deceptive as these are likely to be completely redone under the Biden administration to bring most important manufacturing back to China. It is in this context that Xi had limited room to manoeuvre and decided to focus on stability for the long term to fulfill China's dream of the May 4, 1919 Movement of the last 100 years for Science and Modernization casting aside the risks associated for instability of the inequality that comes with more of the western type of growth, and with the climate change risks also associated with it. Lower growth gives China a chance to correct some of the flaws of the hyper growth that was partly of its own making and partly thrust upon it by investors from the outside, so that the new climate would best serve the goals of the May 4, 1919 Movement of keeping high the banners of Science and Modernization. This kind of rethinking is also going on in the US in the same manner about inequalities and hardships for workers and families, with some of the anger directed at China as internal political sentiment- hence the trillions of dollars moved by the Biden administration to address the flaws of growth under free markets and intervene in the economy where needed as in climate change to give firm sense of direction. In a sense the direction taken in different contexts the American and the Chinese are the same - address the problems of workers and families, of the people, as Lincoln had pointed out and striven so hard for, so that Labor is the more important than Capital, and workers and families vital to the nation.   ...

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The biggest part of oil use in the USA is in transportation and this is where the savings have to come from. Americans were driving twice as many miles a day as they did in the last oil crisis in 1979. So a lot of the savings are to be expected in fewer miles driven as prices rise. The other saving will have to come from more efficient cars with better fuel efficiency and use of alternative fuels. Americans consumed 9.1 million barrels a day of gsoline in April 2008, two million barrels a day more than in April 1979. In 1979 of every 100 barrels of oil produced globally 29 wnet into American transportation, homes and power plants. This figure is only slightly down to 24 barrels so there is much room for significant reduction in a world economy where new technology can be accessed and the Japanese model for conservation shows further gains have already been made in other countries. So Chinese and Indian demand and demand in other newly developing countries will play a part but the US and Europe by showing the way in new technologies that can be adapted for use to reduce overall emissions and to get more out of each barrel of oil would find that these technologies are attractive to China and India in stretching a limited resource for increasing numbers of users in large demographics. Figures from Cambridge Energy Associates....

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The credit crunch itself will take out some of the price pressures and a sinking housing market will slow inflationary pressures also so risks of inflation as the Fed lowers rates are small. Once the housing and credit markets stabilize the Fed can be expected to raise rates.

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Natural gas production starts 90 miles off the northern coast of Norway near Hammerfest, on the Artic Ocean area. A most difficult area to operate in, Statoil Hydro, the Norwegian oil company has addressed this challenge with natural gas production to feed the eastern coast of the USA using liquefied natural gas ships for transportation. Costs for such production are much higher and higher oil and natural gas prices and increasing global demand are expected to support such difficult discovery and exploration in the years to come.

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Uncertainty about inflation in China, is it a longer term situation or is it temporary na d will moderate, and is it mainly for food or will it spread to other items besides food. And how long can the government subsidize the cost of fuel and let the power and oil producers suffer losses by restricitng passthrough of increased costs for Petrochina and Sinopec. If inflation continues to be a problem at about 8% per year then it would affect consumption and possibly tightening measures by the central bank that would slow down growth, and bring some moderation to the demand side of the equation in oil prices which some estimates put as high as $200 citing increased Chinese and other demand.

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The Case-Shiller quarterly U.S. housing price index for the 1st quarter of 2012, shows annual declines in housing prices for 13 of 20 cities. The national numbers for all metro areas in the U.S. showed a 1.9% decrease on an annual basis from the prior year, and decline by 2% for the 1st quarter of 2012 compared to the prior quarter.

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Fisher and Taub in NYT give a brief history of Venezuelan politics and government since the 1950's to help readers understand today's economic and political crisis under president Maduro. How did a country with huge oil resources end up with depleted cash reserves to the point of creating shortages of basic goods on supermarket shelves, how did inflation reach over 700%, and how did the economy contract by over 10%, by some estimates close to 20%, in 2016? Venezuela's story is a reminder that populist movements do not hold the answer to political or economic problems, as they create corruption of their own as new groups of people try to perpetuate themselves in power, and new economic problems as they try to win favor with their own support base. Also through economic mismanagement worsened by economic changes such as oil prices or some other adverse development in the global economy. Internal divisions means the capacity of the country to respond is weakened. Brazil has shown the problems of corruption with new political groups and the weakening of government finances. Venezuela is the extreme example of how a lot can go wrong over time after the initial response to a new populist group is positive as it was in Venezuela in 1998, even with advantage of rich natural resources. Change that fragments a country and polarizes a country instead of pulling together the country's human talent around a program that all groups agree to support, is a signal of future problems. The rule of law is an essential component not just of democracy, but of economic development and progress of any country. These are the lessons of Venezuela for today. Economic crises in the eighties led to loss of public confidence in the two main political parties which alternated in power since the founding of democracy in 1958. In 1998 a military officer named Chavez won the election on the platform of returning power to the people and reducing corruption. Chavez reforms initially were popular. Popular protests in 2002 led to the military briefly taking power before returning power back to Chavez. This led to Chavez moving further towards consolidating power leading to a polarization of society. The oil company workers who went on strike were fired replaced by Chavez supporters and oil funds were diverted to popular programs. In the process Chavez isolated Venezuela from the world economy, leading to lack of foreign investment, and Venezuela falling behind other countries in Latin America, even though it had large oil resources. To retain control of the streets this report shows Chavez helped organize the colectivos or local supporters organized as vigilante groups, which has led to further polarization. Corruption in the military and with the colectivos has led to power being fragmented between different groups. The oil companies fund reserves were depleted by corruption depriving Venezuela of an essential cushion as oil prices dropped. Chavez died of health problems with Maduro winning the election in April 2013 by 50.6% of the vote. The parliamentary elections led to the opposition parties winning by a landslide in December 2015. The current problems with daily street protests stems from the economic crisis, with inflation as high as 700% and shortages of basic goods, the economy declining by over 10% in 2016. The uncontrolled printing of money has fueled rampant inflation.The efforts by president Maduro to nullify the powers of Congress in an effort to control the country and override Congress, has worsened the discontent with the government.   ...

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The new price of the Leaf is $35,200 for the 2012 model year as more features were made standard by Nissan. The Leaf will now cost $27,700 after a $7,500 federal tax credit in the U.S. The higher price also reflects the stronger yen as the Leaf is made in Japan. Every Leaf is sold from a waiting list, with sales in only some states- including Arizona, California, Hawaii, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas and Washington. Nissan's marketing chief, Brian Carolin, says about 1000 vehicles a month will be sold for the remainder of 2011. The average customer of the Leaf drives the car with an all electric range of 75 miles, for 30 miles each day and charges it for 3 hours a day. Average household income is $140,000. The 2012 standard model comes with a cold weather package, heated seats, battery warmer and steering wheel, and a fast charging arrangement that gets it recharged in 30 minutes, instead of the 8 hours.

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Anglo American responds to declining commodity prices and the slowdown in China with deep cuts of 53,000 jobs from its 151,000 workforce. Some of the jobs will be layoffs and other job cuts will be through sale of mines. In Australia mining employment is down 13% in the 2d quarter of 2015 over prior year. Anglo American plans to sell over a quarter of assets in the downsizing. BHP has spun off over ten mines into a separate company called South32. American Pittsburgh based company Consol Energy says it will no longer provide guaranteed health insurance to retired workers. Anglo American is one of the hardest hit companies. It had losses of $3 billion for the first half of 2015, and needs $1.5 billion in cost cutting to become profitable again.

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To get a clearer picture of the potential and problems with alternative fuels one has to cut through the political lobbying aspects to get an idea of what is doable without environmental consequences. There are many issues connected to the new mandate Congress is writing up for use of 9 billion gallons of fuel made from biomass in 10 years by 2017 and 21 billion gallons by 2022. Since it takes about 700,000 tons of biomass to produce 50 million gallons according to one energy analyst it would require the movement of 126 million tons of biomass from biomass growing areas to biomass plants that convert it into fuel in 2017. This would mean burning energy for transport and would require development of the logistics. The technology isn't here yet but scientists know that biomass can be converted into fuels resembling gasoline or diesel based on the molecular chemistry. Environmentalists and national security groups have joined together to push for this sweeping mandate that the Energy department estimates can replace a third or more of the country's gasoline needs by 2017 or 2022 as the fuel efficiency fuel savings also kick in by that time. The idea is to growthe types ofplant material and straw, switchgrass, that would require very little water and fertilizer to grow. Its the challenge scientists have to take on. And to use tree trimmings, corn stubble and certain kinds of garbage thats a biomass for conversion into fuel. Today about 7 billion gallons of ethanol are made in the USA after Congress passed a law in 2005. Its used mainly as an additive and replaces about 4% of the gasoline used in the USA. Congress new mandate on ethanol calls for an additional 8 billion gallons of ethanol from corn by 2015, in 8 years. Right now corn prices are soaring and corn used as feed for livestock is becoming costlier for meat producers causing them to complain and because it takes about 20 million acres of corn to produce these are acres that cant produce vegetable or fruit or other grain and food producers and processors are complaining that this raises the prices they pay for the inputs they use. So there is a lot of lobbying going on back and forth and some of the statements reflect this. The petroleum industry also does'nt like the idea of nonpetroleum based products and hasnt been too enthusiastic about this mandate and hasnt really made the conversion to their refining and distribution networks for widespread use of these alternative fuels. But Congress is determined and public opinion polls reflect the concerns of a public that is upset about nothing being done about the nationa's dependency on foreign oil. For this see the recent Business Week link. All this is going on while the price of ethanol has slumped and corn price inpouts for ehtanol production are soaring making ethanol less profitable, and see the recent link to the WSJ for this. Congress is responding to grassroots public opinion that wants something done and just as the auto industry learned by its failed lobbying on fuel efficiency the petroleum and other industries are just going to have to live with it it seems. ...

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As farm product rotted on farms because of a lack of buyers, India has come up with new ways of getting farm agricultural product to buyers in urban areas. The Indian government has approved online sales direct from farmers to buyers outside the country. Within the country enterprising farmers  and app developers for farm produce sales directly to consumers in cities are changing the way agricultural produce distribution works. This report in the Guardian shows how sales are being made from remote Meghalaya state to buyers in cities for product ranging from turmeric, pineapple, jackfruit, and cashew. Prices are about 70% higher helping boost farmers incomes.  Several states have relaxed rules allowing farmers to sell anywhere in the country.  In other parts of the country this is happening with a proliferation of such apps creating a virtual marketplace. Other examples are a grape orchard farm in Gudahalli with sales made in Bengaluru at 30 apartment complexes. One site founder in Chandigarh says he has in 2 months sold 20,000 tons of produce ranging from avocados of the Nilgiris to papaya from Chattisgarh. His app Harvesting Farmer Network also helps with packaging and delivery. In other developments Gaia Agritech is helping farmers on the Konkan coast in Maharashtra hit hard by a pause in exports, sell to housing societies in Pune and Mumbai. This is part of a broader debate in India after coronavirus pandemic. One idea is that people have a family farmer just like they have a family doctor, encouraging organic agriculture, fresh produce for healthier living. By helping farmers it makes for a better economy, as about a sixth of India's GDP comes from farmers and most of the jobs are in farming and agricultural economy. ...

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Higher oil production in Saudi Arabia in 2012 as the Saudis support U.S. sanctions against Iran.

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The figures are startling, alarming dangerous whatever you call it. How many homeowners are under water or owe more on their mortgage than their house is worth today in today's depressed market? And how many more will be under water in tomorrow's even more depressed market as unemployment gets worse in 2009, and much worse after that in 2010. Moody's Economy.com's chief econmist mark Zandl has worked out some figures. And he says one in 6 mortgages in America today are under water, that is 16% of 7.5 million households that own homes they live in, or roughly 12 million households. To give some idea of how quickly this is deteriorating while Congress, the Administration and the general public could not reach any agreement or consensus about assisting homeowners avoid foreclosure in steps that cover all homeowners across the USA. The comparable figures were roughly 4% under water in 2006 and 6% in 2007. Thats a huge jump from 6% to 16% and was not expected to be such a steep jump in 2008. And it may be accelerating for 2009. And of the homeowners who took on a mortgage in the last 5 years the figures are startling, 29% are under water according to estimate by real estate Web site Zillow.com, that is one in 3 almost. Which is why absence of government help on a comprehensive scale covering the whole country and all homeowners facing foreclosure remains the one huge gap in the rescue package passed by Congress for $700 billion at Sept end 2008. Why is it dangerous? Because it accelerates the downturn in the economy and exacerbates the problem of toxic mortgage assets on the books of overleveraged banks, as dropping housing prices from higher foreclosures depresses the value of those assets even further. And this creates a vicious circle of lower consumption spending followed by lower production, higher unemployment and leading to lower consumption spending in a repeat cycle leading to higher foreclosures as a consequence of higher unemployment....

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Providing an insight for the auto industry and other industries, Nokia has managed its own downturn from a few years ago. Nokia has taken a strong position in emerging markets without letting profit margins sink and keeping the average price of a Nokia cellphone from dropping much. See the groups and links to Motorola's situation. Continued dominance in India and China helped Nokia achieve mobile phone shipments growth of 27%in 2007 over 2006 to reach 133.5 million units. Nokia is also gaining market share increasing it to 40% in the 4th quarter 2007 from 39% in the 3rd quarter. And Nokia is now poised to gain back the market share it lost in the USA in the last few years. It sees the market for mobile phones growing by 10% a year wordwide with strong growth in Asia balancing slower growth in developed countries. Nokia follows the average selling price of mobile phones which suggest the direction the market is taking in price and higher end lower end sales distribution, especially at a time when Nokia competes in price sensitive Asian markets with higher lower end sales distribution. Here the average selling price of Nokia phones dropped from euro 89 in the fourth quarter 2006 to euro 83 in 4th quarter 2007. Nokia is careful to keep introducing new feature laden phones that customers want to keep this average price up. In the 4th quarter 2007 the average price was up from euro 82 in the 3rd quarter to euro 83. Nokia's operating margins in the mobile phone business reflect a surprising result, actually increasing from 17.8% to 25% even as average price is dropping from euro 89 to euro 83? How was this achieved? Some of this is probably from better manufacturing in better locations without compromising quality, moving factories to eastern europe and other places. Nokia plans to close a factory in Germany with 2300 workers and move this to Romania by mid-2008. The increased sale of higher margin multi media phones also helped. Another aspect of Nokia's approach- grasping the fact that extremely high sales were needed to do well in in the lower end of the market at the euro 30 price level. This means that competing in India and China with the high sales volume helps it stay ahead in this lower end. These markets are also interesting in another way, they are fast changing markets with a lot of things happening. Because they are price sensitive there is a lot of competition including from lower end makers in China. Asian markets also have young users who have different usage, lifestyle and trends and Nokia can learn a lot on how to stay abreast of these demographics and other changes. And competing at this level helps you develop the manufacturing knowhow to bring down the cost of the higher end phones with more features. There are crisscross benefits to competing at every price range in different demographics and in different regions, and continually learning and building the people and structures to compete effectively. . Nokia's successful strategies in 2008. ...

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The drop in oil prices and the credit crunch is driving a push for mergers in the oil industry. Suncor Energy of Canda is acquiring Petro-Canada for about $15 billion in stock,bringing together two of Canada's oil sands and oil companies. To do the deal Suncor will giv each Petro-Canada shareholder 1,28 shares of the combined company for each share of Petro-Canda. Suncor will shareholders will end up owning 60% of the new company and Petro-Canada shareholders 40%. Suncor founded in 1953 is the second largest oil sands producer. It posted profit of $4.1 billion on sales of $24.3 billion, debt load of $5.8 billion and has market value of $23.4 billion. Petro-Canada was established by the government of Canada in 1975 and in involved in exploration, production and distribution of oil and natural gas, with operations in Canda, Trinidad and Tobago, and Syria. The government reduced its stake to 19% in 2004. Petro-Canda had operating profit of $7 billion on $22.2 billion in sales, and $2.7 billion debt, with market value of $11.6 billion on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Its stock has suffered a larger decline, and shareholders like the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund, which owns 3.3% of Petro-Canada, was looking for ways to get more value out of the company with pressure to sell some of its assets or the whole company. Both companies have cut spending by a third, amid falling oil prices....

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U.S. home ownership rate drops to 64.8% of American families in the 1st quarter of 2014, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. This is the lowest since 1995.

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After the financial crisis of 2008-2009, commercial real estate defaults posed a serious threat to the US economy. Now this threat is receding with low interest rates making it easier to get cheap financing, which raises the returns. For banks the rising earnings give a cushion to absorb losses, letting them sell distressed properties and not have to hold onto them. From office towers in Manhattan to Florida apartment buildings and retail properties in Washington, commercial real estate values are going up. Prices of commercial real estate properties sold by institutional investors went up by 19% in 2010, according to an index developed by the MIT Center for Real Estate. Investors have boosted the prices of bonds backed by commerical real estate to the highest level in two years. The managing director at Real Capital Analytics says, that with values going up, both the owners and lenders have more room to work out difficult situations. Real Capital Analytics January 2011 report shows that of the $52 billion in retail properties to fall into default, a little over half have completed workouts. In Feb 2010, the Congressional Oversight Panel of the Troubled Asset Relief Program said that the commercial real estate market had the potential to pose a serious threat to the US economy. The panel estimated that about half of the $1.4 trillion in commercial property real estate loans set to be paid off by 2014 were under water, where the borrower owes more than the property is worth. Market segments for hotel, apartment buildings and retail are going up. Hotel occupancy rates in the top 25 markets went up from 60% to 64%, according to Smith Travel Research. Sales of apartment buildings in the US went up as home ownership hit new lows, and lease rates went up to the highest levels in 4 years, according to Axiometrics....

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Martin Feldstein on the U.S. economy in 2014 and the risks of the U.S. Federal Reserve tackling the economy on its own with monetary policy, without Congress taking on the task of policies to promote economic growth. Feldstein points out the 3.6% GDP growth estimate for the third quarter 2013 does not look that good considering that half of this is from buildup of inventory. GDP growth is about 2% as net result. With paralysis of Congress and the Executive branch the Fed's policy of huge buildup of long term bonds to reduce short term interest rates to zero and stimulate stock and home prices, he describes as the only game in town. The problem is that the size of the effect of increase in consumer spending from this increase in household wealth is small and not enough to contribute to significant GDP growth. The risks of this approach are that it contributes to destabilizing the economy as investors buy risky securities and bid up prices. He suggests a five year $1 trillion infrastructure development program, including defense, as a stimulus Congress should consider. Not the kind of stimulus that happened after the 2008 crisis. If not enough investment ready projects are available as in 2008 that will contribute to future growth, Congress should take another one year to prepare for this before moving forward. Debt reduction is key, and debt as a percentage of GDP should be reduced and set on a path to go where it was before 2008 to about 40%, deficits to below 2% of GDP. This should be done by slowing growth of Social Security and Medicare, and increasing revenues by limiting subsidies in the tax code that Feldstein as pushed for since 2010....

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The difficulty in expanding Frontera by diluting 11,000 co-op farmers ownership to 80% from what it is now to raise $1.5 billion from investors. The idea was to build mini Frontera's in other countries like Chile, China and elsewhere where Frontera has small farms. This is because New Zealand doe not have more land to expand with most available pasture already having cows or sheep. Frontera trucks collect more than 10 million gallons of milk daily some of it being sold to companies like Nestle SA. Farmers get dividend checks montly. Revenue was over $10 billion in 2007 amid sharply rising milk prices. Graphs of WSJ show much lower inventories of dairy products like cheese, milk and milk powder, and of grains like barley, corn and rice compared to several years ago and ten years ago. And productiveness of land varies by country with some countries land much less productive for cultivating rice or corn. Even with investor interest its hard to find a vehicle to invest in like the Frontera dairy situation where Frontera coop farmers are not in favor of expansion overseas and already have invested heavily in New Zealand itself....

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With 9.5 million barrels a day cut for U.S. G20 and OPEC+ negotiated by president Trump many Texas oil wells will be shut in. Even with these cuts price is sensitive after dropping to $22 by April 12, 2020. The cuts averted a complete collapse in oil prices when markets opened on April 13. By April 12 oil demand worldwide had fallen by 30 million barrels a day. That is how grave the situation was. By doing so the U.S. protected its oil industry. There was complete lack of leadership from Russia, Saudis, Mexico and other countries until president Trump intervened with strong action. Trump threatened tariffs on imported oil to protect the U.S. oil industry if other nations did not come to terms, including calls from U.S. senators telling prince Abdulaziz the Saudi oil minister the U.S. Saudi relationship could not be salvaged if the Saudis did not come to an agreement. Once again president Trump's tariff moves worked, this time to save the world oil industry and oil producing economies such as Russia from severe hardship. ...

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Its going to be very difficult to adopt the bad bank option in current circumstances, where the banks find their situation continually and rapidly deteriorating with renewed loss of public confidence and collapsing share prices. The efforts with the first TARP under Treasury Secretary Paulson to isolate the toxic assets of banks did not take off and had to be diverted to capital injections for precisely this reason. Banks in November and December 2008 went through a continually escalating problem situation, with losses, collapsing share prices and so on, and the government had no breathing room to develop the bad bank solution. In some cases decisions had to be made in a few days to prevent the collapse of some banking institution like Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley or Citicorp. At the same time its very clear that there can be no restoration of confidence in lending, and no recovery, without lending by banks, without a bad bank to separate these toxic assets from the banking system in the USA. The Swedish and American example in the 1990's of a bad bank, was possible because the banks were either gone bust, or under government ownership. With the banks in private hands, it is somewhere between difficult to impossible to value these toxic assets without serious problems. So nationalizing these banks becomes the only serious option, which would become more acceptable as the crisis unfolds in 2010, and it becomes clear that one way or another the government is guaranteeing these assets. Banks are in reality entirely dependent on the US government for capital and support, and it would not be wise to pretend otherwise. The safest and most direct option would be to mitigate the risks of nationalization, with prudent safeguards, and develop the bad bank option with the government in ownership of banks, in which case the bad bank option can proceed quickly. ...